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Author Topic: Why are CRT TVs good for MAME?  (Read 290 times)

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yo1dog

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Why are CRT TVs good for MAME?
« on: August 02, 2016, 01:54:37 pm »
So I have doing a LOT of reading regarding MAME and video output... but I am still pretty lost.

I have a Sony Trinitron WEGA KV-32FS120 TV. I frequently see these mentioned as good TVs for classic consoles (what I am using it for now) and MAME. However, I am confused as to how this TV can produce native arcade resolutions.

I know the resolution is 480i, and that means it draws 480 lines. It is interlaced so it actually draws the first set of 240 lines (even lines) and then the other set of 240 lines (odd lines) after.
  • What is the horizontal and vertical frequency of this TV?
  • How can this TV display native arcade resolutions like 320x256, 320x224, 288x224, etc?
  • What hardware and software is needed to output these resolutions from a PC? Can it be done with a newer nVidia card with DVI out?

Thanks,
 - Mike
« Last Edit: August 03, 2016, 06:58:45 pm by yo1dog »


yo1dog

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Re: Why are CRT TVs good for MAME?
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2016, 11:15:20 am »
Uhhh.. that's a lot to read. Can't you just summarize it for me?


JK ;) I read all the documentation. What a great resource. It needs to be finished, updated, and stickied!

It certainly answered a lot of my questions about required hardware and software. I have some new ones:
  • Is there an updated list of ATI cards that are compatible with CRT EmuDriver/ATOM-15? Is the Radeon HD 4890 the newest supported model?
  • We don't have SCART input on our TVs in USA, so what input should I use? Component, composite, or S-Video?

Unfortunately, the sections that would answer my questions about the CRT hardware are missing. So I am still not sure how my TV is able to produce native resolutions.

jtslade

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Why are CRT TVs good for MAME?
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2016, 11:29:48 am »
Don't use a TV for Mame. That is the condensed version..... use an Arcade CRT and Atom15 with GroovyMame on a Radeon 4k series. Choose one that will do the lower dot clocks.

Result is arcade games that look identical to the real thing. Pretty much as close as you can get using a computer..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
« Last Edit: August 06, 2016, 12:18:05 pm by jtslade »
Ms. Pacman Original Cocktail with Non destructive mod to Groovy Arcade Linux with All 4way Vertical Cocktail capable 2 button or less games.


Neo Geo MVS Mame Cab Running Hyperspin, 25" Nanao Arcade Monitor, Mini-pac, Arcade VGA 3000, IL 8 Way Euro-Sticks from Paradise Arcade, Win XP 64bit, and tons of other junk.


Dawgz Rule

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Re: Why are CRT TVs good for MAME?
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2016, 11:40:29 am »
That particular TV is fine for what you want to do.   In order to get it to display the native resolution you simply need to have your video output at 15khz.   You can do this with a number of ways.  I have done it with an ArcadeVGA as well as Soft15khz and an encoder.  There are others as well.   An arcade monitor is great if you want to pay the price for one.  Otherwise, you can use your TV at a fraction of the cost and the appearance is identical.    Check out this link for more info:

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,121491.msg1288832.html#msg1288832

Regards

yo1dog

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Re: Why are CRT TVs good for MAME?
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2016, 02:14:59 pm »
Don't use a TV for Mame. That is the condensed version ... use an Arcade CRT ...

I already own the TV I mentioned above, so I wanted to know how well it could be used for MAME. As I stated I frequently saw that model mentioned as being a good choice for MAME so I figured I would look into it. Buying an arcade CRT is defiantly still a possibility, but since I already have my TV I want to see what kid of performance I can get out of it.

... ArcadeVGA as well as Soft15khz and an encoder ...  Check out this link for more info: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,121491.msg1288832.html#msg1288832

Another great link. Thanks so much for sharing. I'd sticky that too :)

Some more questions:

  • Should I use crt_emudriver 2.0 or stick with the latest stable release? It says it's still in beta.
  • I was thinking about getting an ATI Radeon HD 4890 (newest supported model), but it only has S-Video and DVI. Would either of those work or does it have to be VGA? Is there any point in getting a performance GPU? I read once that MAME doesn't even use it. If that's true I guess I'll just get whatever cheap ATI Radeon HD 4xxx card with VGA I can find, as suggested.
  • Any suggestions on transcoders? "Crescendo Systems TC1600 VGA to Component" was suggested but they don't seem to be made any more (also $179 USD!?).
  • A question about interlacing: 480i draws two 480x180 halves (one with even rows, the other with odd rows) to create the full 480x360 picture, right? The second half is drawn right after the the first, fast enough that our eyes see it as one picture. Does this mean the TV has to refresh twice as fast when drawing a 480x360 (480i) image than it would if it were drawing just a 240x180 (240p) image? If not, when drawing a 240p image, what happens to the time that was used to draw the second half of a 480i image but is not needed?


« Last Edit: August 06, 2016, 02:31:04 pm by yo1dog »

haynor666

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Re: Why are CRT TVs good for MAME?
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2016, 02:30:44 pm »
Quote
Should I use crt_emudriver 2.0 or stick with the latest stable release? It says it's still in beta but that was back in 2008.

Works great on XP x32 and 7 x64 so use it latest version.

Quote
I was thinking about getting an ATI Radeon HD 4890 (newest supported model), but it only has S-Video and DVI. Would either of those work or does it have to be VGA? Is there any point in getting a performance GPU? I read once that MAME doesn't even use it. If that's true I guess I'll just get whatever cheap ATI Radeon HD 4xxx card with VGA I can find, as suggested.

MAME does not care about GPU power unless You are using effects built in. Since You are going to get native resolutions without any effects You need cheap card. As mentioned use HD4350 or any cheap model from 5 or 6 serie. If there is only one DVI it will output analog signal but You need DVI-VGA connector (very cheap).

Dawgz Rule

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Re: Why are CRT TVs good for MAME?
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2016, 08:43:50 pm »
Quote
Any suggestions on transcoders? "Crescendo Systems TC1600 VGA to Component" was suggested but they don't seem to be made any more (also $179 USD!?).

The key to the transcoder is that you want a converter without scaling.   Here is one that may be worth looking into:   https://www.audioauthority.com/product_details/9A60    I use a TC1600 but was considering this for another build.  Haven't actually tested it though. 

Quote
A question about interlacing: 480i draws two 480x180 halves (one with even rows, the other with odd rows) to create the full 480x360 picture, right? The second half is drawn right after the the first, fast enough that our eyes see it as one picture. Does this mean the TV has to refresh twice as fast when drawing a 480x360 (480i) image than it would if it were drawing just a 240x180 (240p) image? If not, when drawing a 240p image, what happens to the time that was used to draw the second half of a 480i image but is not needed?

Don't have an answer for you on this one but can assure you that it will display just fine. 

  
 

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